WordPress 2.5 sneak peek

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Helios_Multi TPoxygen11final

[John Lampard]

It's looking quite awesome and has the benefit of the Happy Cog crew's design input to boot. Just hope the back end performance lives up to front end hype

[Anonymum]

Yoiu beat me by about 2 mins on posting this preview
 
So long as it got posted I guess it doesn't matter. Looking not too bad at all

[FormerAdmin]

Hi,

"We've cut the number of navigation options by half" and "We’ve omitted superfluous information" are not always a good thing.

"The new write screen only displays the information that you’ll use most often. It displays the most common fields in a way that makes posting incredibly easy. Additional options are hidden away until you need them." If it is anything like the admin panel I reviewed in WordPress 2.5 Alpha: It doesn’t totally suck, then the most common fields that I use are hidden.

In short, it appears that they have dumbed it down a lot - simplification for simplification's sake. The only people that the changes may help are those that are new to it, not the millions of people who use it successfully every day. It is like they've had one email from an ageing relative complaining about complexity and stripped anything not immediately relevant to the simplest task away. In other words, they've hidden the stuff that a lot of bloggers use all the time.

Why hide used necessary functionality? Why alienate current users? The only thing I can think of that makes sense is a planned premium edition where they charge for bringing the fire back. As evil as this sounds, the only conclusion I can come to otherwise is that they have totally lost it. Pity.

As I mentioned in WordPress 2.5 Alpha: It doesn’t totally suck, the new way of doing things (by hiding a lot of functionality behind multiple toolbars) is going to make things harder. Imagine starting a sentance for a complete newcomer with "In the right upper toolbar menu, select Settings then ..." - how do they think that is going to go?   

Cheers, Andrew   

[John Lampard]

I've only seen the half dozen screen shots the WP post provides, but no where does it strike me as being dumbed down.

"The new write screen only displays the information that you’ll use most often. It displays the most common fields in a way that makes posting incredibly easy. Additional options are hidden away until you need them."

Sorry, but that makes perfect sense to me. The current WP dashboard is quite literally cluttered with options I barely look at, let alone use.

Does Moveable Type have a premium version... wouldn't disgruntled WP users migrate there if faced with a pay version of WP?

[FormerAdmin]

My take on it...

WordPress 2.5: Perhaps I was wrong

Cheers, Andrew

[FormerAdmin]

I've only seen the half dozen screen shots the WP post provides, but no where does it strike me as being dumbed down.

"The new write screen only displays the information that you’ll use most often. It displays the most common fields in a way that makes posting incredibly easy. Additional options are hidden away until you need them."

Sorry, but that makes perfect sense to me. The current WP dashboard is quite literally cluttered with options I barely look at, let alone use.

Does Moveable Type have a premium version... wouldn't disgruntled WP users migrate there if faced with a pay version of WP?

John,

"the new write screen" is the one I have the biggest issues with - please see WordPress 2.5 Alpha: It doesn’t totally suck. They do not display the information that I use most often. They've hidden that.

It just makes the application harder for me to use with no discernible tradeoff. If I thought that I was the only one who would be inconvenienced I would be OK with that.

Movable Type is a long way less user friendly than even this dumbed down WordPress. I'm not going into the MT horror stories that I know because they were told to me in confidence - suffice to say that it will be a long time before I look at it again.

Best regards, Andrew

[John Lampard]

I see... I disabled the write screen from day one as it was about the only feature of WP I couldn't stand. I am well used to doing HTML tags and CSS manually anyway, and found the WYSIWYG write screen to be a pain.

A premium version of the WP CMS is an interesting concept though. A lot of work has gone into producing WP by a person or persons, so receiving *some sort* of renumeration doesn't seem entirely off the beam.

Just my personal opinion of course

[FormerAdmin]

Thanks John,

I wouldn't be surprised if it panned out that way - commercial reality clicks in sooner or later even in the most altruistic, and they might have some kind of rider on the funding they recently received.

Cheers, Andrew

[FormerAdmin]

Here I am responding to my own post - a sure sign of lunacy

Anyhow... Sephyroth noted on WordPress 2.5: Perhaps I was wrong that the WordPress blog seems to only be allowing positive or neutral trackbacks. My comment in return was this:

Interesting comment on the trackbacks - as I write this, six hours after the post above, there are 49 trackbacks, and none of them look like mine (or any other negative comment, indeed). Combing trackbacks to filter out negatives on an application that has not been released yet is a really serious warning sign - this is the Internet, it is 2008, ignoring negative comment will not make it go away (and recent history has shown that it can actually make things worse).

Anyone with any concerns should write about them now - if only to see if and how Automattic responds.

Does anyone read Seth Godin and see the same "these are the embarrassing stories about companies that continued to ignore negative customer feedback" material that I do?

Cheers, Andrew

[Sephyroth]

Totally not lunacy

But, continuing on with my observation, I did a blog search for posts with links to the post, and as of posting this, there are 205 posts with links to the post, yet only 59 trackbacks...

A lot of the posts would fall into the positive/neutral category, so they mustn't be very attentive to their incoming trackbacks queue...either that or a lot of folks don't send pings out automatically...

[FormerAdmin]

Totally not lunacy

But, continuing on with my observation, I did a blog search for posts with links to the post, and as of posting this, there are 205 posts with links to the post, yet only 59 trackbacks...

A lot of the posts would fall into the positive/neutral category, so they mustn't be very attentive to their incoming trackbacks queue...either that or a lot of folks don't send pings out automatically...

I think that this is a fair indication of Automattic combing out negative comments.

Cheers, Andrew

[Snoskred]

In that post they have an email address where you can give feedback. So I did.

Hi,

Taking a look at 2.5, it seems you have moved the categories area in the write screen that I use regularly.

I also don't see edit timestamp. I'd like that returned to its original location as I use that most of the time when I post.

I don't mind your moving the other stuff but those two are regularly used by me and having to scroll down to find them will be a pain in the rear.

Alternatively, why not give people the option to choose what they want where? Surely you have a way of doing that?

I think you should have left it as it was - you might attract new users with the new simplicity, but those of us who have been users for a while will be very annoyed that you're moving shiznit around like this.

At least give us an option to have the panel the same as it is now if we don't like what you've done.

Cheers,
Snoskred

If you have something to say, I suggest you send them an email. The more emails they get saying the same thing the more likely they will listen.

[FormerAdmin]

In that post they have an email address where you can give feedback. So I did.

Hi,

Taking a look at 2.5, it seems you have moved the categories area in the write screen that I use regularly.

I also don't see edit timestamp. I'd like that returned to its original location as I use that most of the time when I post.

I don't mind your moving the other stuff but those two are regularly used by me and having to scroll down to find them will be a pain in the rear.

Alternatively, why not give people the option to choose what they want where? Surely you have a way of doing that?

I think you should have left it as it was - you might attract new users with the new simplicity, but those of us who have been users for a while will be very annoyed that you're moving shiznit around like this.

At least give us an option to have the panel the same as it is now if we don't like what you've done.

Cheers,
Snoskred

If you have something to say, I suggest you send them an email. The more emails they get saying the same thing the more likely they will listen.

Hi Snos,

good reminder. Here is the email I sent them late last night:

Hi,

my thoughts on 2.5 and why hiding functionality doesn't make sense for
anyone: http://onblogging.com.au/2008/03/18/wordpress-25-perhaps-i-was-wrong/

Like I said, I'll still use it, but I don't know why it has changed
the way it has. I've been around as long as the Happy Cog crew and it
still doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks, Andrew

Cheers, Andrew

[FormerAdmin]

Totally not lunacy

But, continuing on with my observation, I did a blog search for posts with links to the post, and as of posting this, there are 205 posts with links to the post, yet only 59 trackbacks...

A lot of the posts would fall into the positive/neutral category, so they mustn't be very attentive to their incoming trackbacks queue...either that or a lot of folks don't send pings out automatically...

Currently 88 pingbacks on the WP blog, and not a single bad word to say. It's a miracle, I tells ya, a miracle

[Snoskred]

So yo, check this out (have I been watching too much American Idol? )

I have well over 30 bloggers that I host wordpress blogs for.

- Some of them switched over no sweat, they worked hard on learning how Wordpress worked, and they were feeling happy and confident within a week or less.

- Some of them switched over with a lot more struggle - taking up to a month to really get the hang of Wordpress.

- One or two (or so) of them are still finding their feet, to be honest. I feel it is partly on their end - it is like driving my Ford Focus XR5 Turbo - which is not a car, it is a performance vehicle. In order to drive it well, you have to bring something serious to the party in the way of driving skills.

If you don't have those skills right off, you can choose to learn the skills, or you can "hitch a ride" and let other people do the work for you - thus driving ME a little cuckoo with questions that I find are always easily answered by using the search engines. Which is fine, as long as I can stand it. As in I don't mind it the first 10 times, but after that it gets old really fast. No offence to any of my bloggers, by the way. You might think I am talking about you but I probably am not.  :rwink:

Nobody should be driving a performance vehicle unless they are prepared to commit to learning the skills they need, and they shouldn't switch to Wordpress without committing to learning the stuff they'll need to know. That includes HTML and CSS etc. It may not happen overnight - it took me quite a while - but it should happen eventually and certainly well before you want to make changes to your template or add plugins or do anything other than blog.  :rsmiley:

So what happens now to all the people who have worked hard to learn Wordpress and how it works? Well, get out the lube people. Wordpress intends to royally screw you by the look of things.

I am not thrilled with this upgrade. I hate the fact that they are changing how the admin panel looks - if only because all the posts I wrote referring to the dark blue menu and the light blue menu are basically worthless in 2.5. But like Andrew says, how am I going to tell someone new to Wordpress "In the right upper toolbar menu" - it was much easier to say "In the dark blue menu click on options"

And the fact remains that I have to upgrade a shedload of blogs without knowing how the bloggers themselves are going to manage to cope with the new interface. I hate the idea. So yeah cheers thanks a lot Wordpress for giving us all the pineapple treatment.   :rsad:

[Lee]

In that post they have an email address where you can give feedback. So I did.

Hi,

Taking a look at 2.5, it seems you have moved the categories area in the write screen that I use regularly.

I also don't see edit timestamp. I'd like that returned to its original location as I use that most of the time when I post.

I don't mind your moving the other stuff but those two are regularly used by me and having to scroll down to find them will be a pain in the rear.

Alternatively, why not give people the option to choose what they want where? Surely you have a way of doing that?

I think you should have left it as it was - you might attract new users with the new simplicity, but those of us who have been users for a while will be very annoyed that you're moving shiznit around like this.

At least give us an option to have the panel the same as it is now if we don't like what you've done.

Cheers,
Snoskred

If you have something to say, I suggest you send them an email. The more emails they get saying the same thing the more likely they will listen.

The edit post time is actually quite prominent and a lot more user friendly in the write screen actually. (the image is shrunken in the post a little just right click and view image to see clearly)

[Lee]

Oh yeah I got the screenshot from my brand spanking new wordpress candidate 2.5 install.  All went smoothly except for two plugins - one I don't really use and the other I can live without until the new version comes out.

Sure it's different and I think the admin css needs a little refining but overall it's pretty good in my opinion.  Just got to get used to it 

[FormerAdmin]

Currently 88 pingbacks on the WP blog, and not a single bad word to say. It's a miracle, I tells ya, a miracle

And several hours later, still 88 pingbacks - like people have stopped writing about it? Technorati records 1,494 references to WordPress 2.5,  with several negatives in the first couple of result pages.

As a designer, the first sign that you've lost it is when you ignore negative comments - it means that you have bought into your own BS, and have thus ceased to be effective. Matt Mullenweg isn't a designer, he's a coder, so he never really got that - but I could have expected better from Jeffrey Zeldman and Liz Danzico. New IAs read their work and believe every word because of who they are - I would rather new folk didn't at the moment, which is sad.

Cheers, Andrew

[Sephyroth]

Hmm...I must have done something right in their eyes -

#86.

[…] big news of the day in the world of blogging is the fact that a Release Candidate of WordPress 2.5 has been released, along with a post mentioning some of the changes to the admin panel that had […]

Pingback from WordPress 2.5 - I’m not excited. Are you? | Sephy's Platzish on March 19, 2008

BTW, I guess I learnt something about w.bloggar - if you don't specify trackbacks, then it won't send them automatically, I guess, because I manually specified the trackback for that post, but not for yours, Andrew.

Edit - Also, among the links in Technorati was this one - he does a great job going through some of the aspects of the new design.

[Snoskred]

The edit post time is actually quite prominent and a lot more user friendly in the write screen actually. (the image is shrunken in the post a little just right click and view image to see clearly)

The problem with this Lee is that they have changed how it works by the look of things. There is no place to tick edit timestamp. I've pre-published maybe 200 posts since moving to Wordpress and I am used to doing it the way it has always been done - set post status to published, check edit timestamp box, set date in future, hit publish. So not only are they changing how it looks but they are changing how it works and not in a good way. Less user friendly

As in, use a drop down box to select post status (having radio buttons was easier) and change the date, then hit publish. Yes it may be less steps but that doesn't mean it is better. I trusted the old way of doing it and was used to doing it that way.

Sure, if they wanted to take out the edit timestamp box, fine, no problem, but leave the radio buttons for the post status. It isn't like they have a lack of room over there now they've moved everything else out of the way, is it?

I really think they have gone several steps too far here. And it seems they couldn't give a toss what any of the people USING wordpress think about it.

[Lee]

The edit post time is actually quite prominent and a lot more user friendly in the write screen actually. (the image is shrunken in the post a little just right click and view image to see clearly)

The problem with this Lee is that they have changed how it works by the look of things. There is no place to tick edit timestamp. I've pre-published maybe 200 posts since moving to Wordpress and I am used to doing it the way it has always been done - set post status to published, check edit timestamp box, set date in future, hit publish. So not only are they changing how it looks but they are changing how it works and not in a good way. Less user friendly

As in, use a drop down box to select post status (having radio buttons was easier) and change the date, then hit publish. Yes it may be less steps but that doesn't mean it is better. I trusted the old way of doing it and was used to doing it that way.

Sure, if they wanted to take out the edit timestamp box, fine, no problem, but leave the radio buttons for the post status. It isn't like they have a lack of room over there now they've moved everything else out of the way, is it?

I really think they have gone several steps too far here. And it seems they couldn't give a toss what any of the people USING wordpress think about it.

Sorry I'm not really following how this is any different really from what we had in 2.3 except that it's higher up on the sidebar now in a more prominent position and instead of a tickbox you simply click edit and select the date you want exactly as you did previously.  There isn't more or less steps even.

You don't have to use the post status drop down box, you can click the publish or save buttons too:



If you click edit you get the time stamp to change pretty much the way it was, then hit the publish button when ready:



Also in the manage posts screen they display the publish and scheduled statuses quite well (I'd include a screenshot of that except I've been bad and have no scheduled posts  )

I'd really suggest having a play around with a working copy - in fact I might even set up a sandbox one to play with if you're interested in having a go - just PM me and I'll organise a login and address (if anyone else is keen let me know).

[Snoskred]

Oh, well that is even worse than I thought.

Let me tell you a little about how I blog the thought of the day on my blog.

I open 7-14 windows. (I usually do 2-4 weeks at a time)

I start with the first window and I write "thought for today" and then I highlight that and copy it.

I then go through and paste that into each window, and I add the date next to thought of the day as I go.

I then tick edit the timestamp and set the date to match the date in the title on each of the pages I have open. This doesn't require any re-loading of pages. Everything is all there on the main screen.

I also do the category at the same time. I won't be able to do that in future either because they have moved it so I will have to scroll down.

I suspect clicking on edit will mean a page reload, so I will now have to add in an extra step at the start of *every* post I write to do that - I never publish something without setting it in advance, even if it is just 30 minutes - so I have time to check the post before it goes live. That's because in wordpress a page reload means you lose whatever is there unless you saved it as a draft - at least that is my experience.

The bottom line is, why change what ain't broke? They're just doing this as an exercise in stupidity in my opinion - and not winning many fans in the process. So it can look more "posh"?

I'm fed up with the constant updating already and I have only been using it for 5 months. Fix the security problems which they seem to keep having (maybe it would be an idea to focus on that rather than tarting up the admin area), give us a stable version that works, and then leave it alone. In my opinion, of course.  :rwink:

I know there's a sandbox somewhere I can try, but to be honest I can't be bothered. I'm seriously thinking I'm not going to upgrade. I like things the way they are.

[Snoskred]

See, there I just went and did 7 posts in less than 10 minutes. The way it works now works for me. The way they are changing it to be may not work as well.

It's just really frustrating to see them doing this and saying they consulted people who use wordpress - they didn't consult me. Did they consult anyone here? I doubt it. So who are they consulting? Real bloggers?

I can't imagine that I use it differently to anyone else. Everything you need to publish a post in the write screen is right there on one page the way it is now.

[Lani]

The changed timestamp thing freaks me without that tickbox, because I'm so used to that being IMPORTANT to tick, but if it works without it, I will adjust.  But not counting categories as a baasic function and leaving it where it was is insane.  The most beginner users use categories more often than they edit the timestamp.  I also edit the slug frequently as I have a tendency to write long post titles.  All those things that have been relegated to the abyss were things I used every day.  The only thing I ever had to scroll for was my SEO plugin, and file upload, which I don't use every day.  So I don't like it.  I think it makes it harder for newbies to learn what WP can do, personally.

[Lee]

See this is half the problem with Wordpress in my opinion; constantly upgrading, and I admit I'm a sucker for it, I generally always upgrade to the next bleeding edge thing.

Even though I like the new format and the new features regarding code, embedding media and how it handles certain other little things (personally the new time stamp thingy I really like) but I would have been just as happy with these features integrated into the existing build and format.

So I get what everyone is concerned about and everyone is right because a lot of this is going to come down to personal choice. I would prefer them to allow us to format and move stuff around ourselves in the admin to set it up the way we like to work rather than force something onto us - the future in most systems is allowing people to build their own dashboards easily (I'm talking drag and drop).  The categories bit is very perfect example of this as it is under the post field and no longer on the side and I'm in agreement that this is not natural and I can't image who it could be natural for?  I've also noticed that my headspace tags stuff is now missing which is a shame cause I really like that.

I have no doubts whatsoever that there are going to be a lot of people who shouldn't upgrade!  Which is in no way a bad thing I do worry about the support though and hope that a faction sticks with 2.3 (kinda like commodore 64 people!).

Oh just a side note - the page doesn't reload when you click edit - it's ajax I believe and nothing is lost.